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ChromaTalk Archives: May 2002

Featured Thread: Different Back Panel is a discussion of instruments missing the Rhodes logo and branded with "ARP" on the panel face plate. Some information from Philip Dodds (product manager at ARP and Fender) and Mark Vail is discussed which led to discovery of the ARP Chroma Announcement.

All Threads

Could there only be 1000 Chromas (and not 3000 or so)?

David Clarke [21030085++]

While poking through some Chroma data something caught my eye ...

Looking at the registry data, there are no two Chromas with a different model number, but the same serial number. For instance, you might expect there to be a 21030010 and a 21010010 if each model had its own serial number range.

With the (limited) list of serial numbers we have we can't yet prove that the list isn't sequential across all models - so it is possible that there are only 1000 units total (since the highest S/N is 0936 (21030936)).

If there's anyone out there who has a Chroma (or Expander) and hasn't submitted an entry for the registry, please do so to help us figure out how many Chromas were made (even if it just lists the S/N and indicates if it still exists or not.)

Rich Hilleman [21030351+]

I'm almost certain this is true.

In fact I would be very surprised if the number is much above 600. For perspective, at similar retail prices, there are less than 600 CS80's in the world and less than 400 Memorymoogs.

These are contemparies and reflect the real market at the time for units that cost $4000+

Doug Terrebonne [21030114]

But why is there 2101s with higher numbers than 2102s or 2103s? Do you think they delibrately skipped numbers and the went back and filled them in with later models? Doesn't seem likely to me...

Actually, there are 2103s with higher serial numbers than 2101s; but Doug's point is the same.

Are you sure about only 400 Memorymoogs? They seem way more common than that... Also, there were 8000 P-5s, 2000 JP-8s, and several thousand OB-Xa/OB-8s sold (all $4,000+)...

Chris Ryan [21030691]

There was a brief exchange along the same lines on the mailing list in February 2001 [Expander - how rare?].

At that time, I speculated: "Just from looking at serial numbers (see the Registry section at the site), it's pretty easy to guess that about 300 model 2101 Chromas were made, and about 900-1000 2103s," for a presumed total somewhere around 1200. (Since then we have had one 2104 series Chroma, which seems to have been built for the Australian market, added to the registry, but it's a low number at 0012. [21040016 has since been added.]) I was assuming that each series had its own serial number range. Dave points out, though, that we don't have any evidence that this was the case.

The number 3000 seems to have originated in the Vintage Synths article from Keyboard.

When asked how many Chromas were made, Philip Dodds replies, "My guess is about 3,000." Note that he qualifies the number by saying it's a guess.

Besides serial numbers, the best evidence I've seen for lower sales numbers is from the Inc. article The Rise and Fall of ARP Instruments: "In its first year with the product, CBS sold more than $3 million worth of Chromas."

The Vintage Synths column from Keyboard, and the Keyfax review, claim an original price of $5295; the Keyboard Report, published closer to when the Chroma was introduced, lists suggested retail price as $4995. (One possibility for this discrepancy would have been the introduction, or planned introduction--can anyone confirm Chromas with pressure sensors pre-installed?--of the pressure sensor late in the run, which may have put the price up a few hundred dollars.)

Doing the math, then, suggests sales of approximately 570 to 600 units in the first year. Since the Chroma wasn't sold much longer than that (introduced 1982, pretty much phased out by the end of 1983), I would say that 1000 might be a high number, if we can believe the sales figure from the Inc. article. Whether or not that would include Expanders is in question; however, they seem to be pretty low in numbers--the highest we have in the registry's 1633 serial number range is Dave Bradley's 0135--and the Inc. figure likely would have included them.

Rich Hilleman [21030351+]

Thanks Chris.

Peter Miller at CAE and I have had this conversation before.

He is the tech I have found to have the irrational love for the Chroma. I have donated a few pieces from my parts Chroma so that he can bring his own back to life. It is the only synth that I know he truely loves. The CS80, on the other hand.....

My unit is back to full operation, much to my pleasure. I have a could of questions. First, we had a heck of time getting a keyboard with all of the contacts working. According to Peter that used such a low current to read the keyboard combined with one of the two switches being non-self-cleaning and the silver plating on those contacts has made these subject to oxidation.

We have found that the only way to bring it back to life was to clean the offending contact with 8000 -12000 grid sandpaper (found at hobby stores) It seems to have done the trick. Do you have anyone else that you have heard of with this problem?

Second, has anyone ever turn the first three patch tapes into .wavs that you know of. The tapes I bought with both units do not have complete data.

David Clarke [21030085++]

But why is there 2101s with higher numbers than 2102s or 2103s? Do you think they delibrately skipped numbers and the went back and filled them in with later models?

It is probably reading more into it than there really is, but the "effectivity" note for field change notice 8 (FCN3-008) might be relevant to this topic line.

It says "Chroma, Models 2101 through 2104, and Expander, Model 1633, all Serial Numbers through 0800."

It doesn't specify a given serial number range for each model - just one range for all of them.

We're just speculating, but if they did only have 1 set of serial numbers it is possible that they issued then sequentially, and assigned them to model 2101, 2102, 2103 or 2104 as dictated by current orders/need.

See How many Chromas were manufactured? in the FAQ for related threads.

Key Contacts and Patch Tapes

David Clarke [21030085++]

...First, we had a heck of time getting a keyboard with all of the contacts working. ... We have found that the only way to bring it back to life was to clean the offending contact with 8000 -12000 grid sandpaper (found at hobby stores) It seems to have done the trick. Do you have anyone else that you have heard of with this problem?

I've never had this problem (at least not on a Chroma). I have run into similar problems in the past with J-wire type keyboards - but the problem there usually is that someone has already taken sandpaper to the J-wires/bus bars and took the plating off (making them oxidize much more readily).

Second, has anyone ever turn the first three patch tapes into .wavs that you know of. The tapes I bought with both units do not have complete data.

A quick/easy way to get what you need to is just generate the .wavs from scratch.

You can get sysex versions of the factory patches from Patch Downloads.

You can then transform the sysex patches into .wav files (well, OK .snd, files) with the Syx2tape utility.

Rich Hilleman [21030351+]

My midi interface works. I'll just do it that way. Thanks for the advice......

Rich Hilleman [21030351+]

I would have thought you were right about the keyboard contacts, but I had two complete working units. What they have in common is they come from relatively dry places (Colinga California and Calgary, Alberta).

Peter Miller said he had seen it before, but he suspects these units, which both had sat for better than five years, had it worse than average. We used the best pieces from these two units plus a parts unit that Pet had.

I can sysex, I was just Trying to help Pete who doesn't.

A-Z of Analogue: Chroma/Expander Article Review

Chris Ryan [21030691]

Peter Forrest is the author of The A-Z of Analogue which, a couple of years back, he kindly allowed me to excerpt on the site [see A-Z of Analogue: Rhodes].

He's currently working on a revision to the N-Z volume, which includes Rhodes, and has sent me a couple of drafts of the Chroma/Expander article to review. I asked him if I could open up comments to the mailing list, and he agreed. I don't think he's looking for extra material, just a check for glaring errors.

The latest draft is appended, with a couple of notes from me [in square brackets]. Please send corrections directly to me or, if there's something you think is contentious or debatable, feel free to respond to the list.

Thanks!

Article draft removed as final has been published (see A-Z of Analogue: Rhodes).

Chris Ryan [21030691]

No comments on the article? I want to send it back to Peter in a couple of days.

I received some feedback from David Clarke via personal e-mail.

Chroma For Sale on eBay

Chris Ryan [21030691]

Looks OK, a few nicks; includes an original Syntech MIDI interface (with logo silkscreened on the box), which I hadn't seen before (I got mine direct from Ken Yparilla and it's a plain black box).

Item 871483333--here's a picture.

Different Back Panel

David Clarke [21030085++]

I was poking through some material today and noted that the back panel of the Chroma in the main Chroma Brochure is not actually the production Chroma back panel.

Where the brochure has the Mono Out High/Low below a single XLR output, the actual back panel has two XLRs outs (Mono + '3 Output'), and the Mono Out 1/4 Jacks to the right of them.

Does anybody have a Chroma that has the back panel outlined in the Brochure?

David Gowin [21030611]

And, one more thing, I have a Chroma (sorry, not in the Chroma list yet), that does not have Rhodes on the back. Is this a hit or miss thing wth CBS produced Chroma's?

Chris Ryan [21030691]

I've added the full text of the brochure, and a better view of the back panel [see Product Brochure].

Jimmy Moyer [21030184]

I have a copy of the brochure as well. I always assumed the photo was of one of the prototypes. You can also see the knobs on the sliders are different and parameter 2 is labeled "poly/mono".

David Clarke [21030085++]

Another difference I hadn't noticed before - the 4 outputs are named "Quad Inputs/Outputs" as opposed to just "Audio Inputs/Outputs." Neat.

David Clarke [21030085++]

And, one more thing, I have a Chroma (sorry, not in the Chroma list yet), that does not have Rhodes on the back. Is this a hit or miss thing wth CBS produced Chroma's?

I've never seen one without the Rhodes logo; however, it does look like it is only affixed via two screws. Could it be that the name plate was just removed at some time (in-line with how performers would sometimes cover over logos with tape, etc?)

Chris Ryan [21030691]

I've never seen one without the Rhodes logo; [...]

I'm pretty sure I recall hearing from someone claiming to own a Chroma with an ARP logo. If this was true (I didn't see a photo), perhaps it was one of the early units. Claes von Heijne writes in his Chroma registry entry [21030290] that he visited the plant in Woburn and saw "lots of Chromas, some of them with the ARP badge on them." Claes, did you mean on the back panel? Perhaps some of these got out. (I know others have spoken of voice boards with the ARP logo [since confirmed--see David Clarke's Voice Board Revisions: ARP].)

Erik Vellinga [21010286]

Well, here's a picture taken from "Vintage synthesizers" by Mark Vail of an ARP Chroma !

Chris Ryan [21030691]

I've wondered about this picture (which was also in the Keyboard magazine article "The Synth That Survived ARP's Fall," reprinted at the site). Was it an ARP promotional photo? Or did (does) someone actually have one, and might more exist? And what did the back panel look like?

I've e-mailed Mark Vail to ask him if he knows anything about it.

Jack Colburne [21030142+]

Hi,

Name's Jack Colburne. Chroma owner from Boston from the old days. When I had brought my unit on several occasions to Cummings Park in Woburn in 1983, 84 there was at least one, maybe several units with the white ARP followed by the orange Chroma on the front of the unit. I don't remember if the cover of the unit that I looked at was metal like a stock unit or a tolex covered prototype similar to Eric's scan; it was probably dissassembled. Most units there were. I recall thinking it looked exactly like the same logo style as all of the later ARP products. (Same white ARP, same orange model name). I don't remember seeing the back of the units.

Claes von Heijne[16330008]

I was in the Woburn plant 19 years ago to complain about faulty eproms, I had to start with repairing it in Stockholm where no store had seen this instrument other than on picture. I did not look at the back of them, but some of them where badged just like the pictures white/orange arpchroma above the keys to the right, others where labelled just arp at this spot, some had no badge, and few labelled like my production model. The lack of standard was probably why I noticed it. I think there where also some instruments where the badge was put over middle c, not to the right. They were being worked on, toplid removed, or in store.

Chris Ryan [21030691]

I heard back from Mark Vail.

Begin forwarded message:

From: Mark Vail
Date: Thu May 23, 2002 10:16:32 AM
Subject: Re: ARP Chroma?

I believe that Chroma photo came from an ARP brochure. You might check with Philip Dodds. [...]

I've asked Phil Dodds if he knows anything about ARP Chromas. I did a quick Web search and found a "pre-Rhodes" ARP Chroma, serial #0044, for sale on this page:

http://www.planetkc.com/joleo/ebay/ [url obsolete as of 2009.07]

The picture is too small to make out any detail. I wrote to ask them if it's really ARP branded.

Chris Ryan [21030691]

On Thursday, May 23, 2002, at 12:27 PM, Chris Ryan wrote:

I've asked Phil Dodds if he knows anything about ARP Chromas.

On Thursday, May 23, 2002, at 05:41 PM, Philip V.W. Dodds wrote:

There was one prototype ARP Chroma that was photographed, I think, and it might have had tolex in the first version, but I'm not sure.

We scrapped the first design and were already thinking of how it should have been done when ARP went down. Once relocated in Woburn, and the team reassembled, we started over, but with a much better set of design parameters and lessons. The production Chroma was designed in Woburn under CBS and we built 50 units there as pilot production. Thereafter, they were made at the Gulbranson plant (and later at Fender).

A funny side bar: I met Harold Rhodes at the Fender/Rogers/Rhodes plant a year or so after that. What a character. He told me the story of all the Rhodes followers were seeking a "pre CBS Rhodes". He laughed at this -- there aren't any. He prototyped the instrument but it never went into production until after CBS bought him out and hired him. So neither the Chroma nore the Rhodes ever had a life before CBS -- except as prototypes. This is in contrast to Steinway, of course. There are many "pre-CBS" instruments, and now post-CBS instruments.

Mark Vail says that the picture in his "Vintage Synthesizers" (which Erik scanned and sent to the list) is from an ARP Chroma brochure in Keyboard magazine's archives. At his suggestion I've contacted Keyboard's executive editor to see if she can dig it out and make a copy. Would be very interesting to see!

Claes von Heijne[16330008]

Then what I saw was mostly some of the first 50 instruments, this was in the summer of 1983, I had left Berklee College of Music but was studying with Charlie Banacos in Boston that summer, and took the chance to go out to the factory since no warranty covered my costs for an instrument that was delivered malfunctioning. As I remember it, the badge looked like they were experimenting with it, there were more than two versions.

Question: is there someone who owns or has seen a Chroma Polaris with the ARP colourscheme, white/orange? Mine is blue/white, most of them seems to be, but the ad version i "Keyboard" is arpish.

Thanks for developing this site, it is of very high quality.

Christopher Now

Though I've never seen a Chroma with the early back panel, I did have the opportunity of working on one of the first 50 Chromas.

When I was a tech back in the early '80s, I worked at CAE in San Mateo. My old supervisor Peter, who still owns and operates CAE, had a really good relationship with the Rhodes service manager and we were sent a Chroma with a serial number under 50. It was when Rhodes moved their operations to California and their factory service department was packed up. Since the unit had to be shipped back to the owner on the West Coast, we got to do the warranty rework on it.

I remember that the I/O board and all of the dual channel boards had Arp logos silkscreened on them, and there was already a fair amount of board rework done to them. It had rev 10 firmware in it.

The back panel of this had a Rhodes logo and a production back panel (along with a Rhodes power supply). The rest of the case, front panel and membrane switch were the same as later Rhodes production units, though the wood wasn't cherry - it had a different grain and was darker. The data entry knob was from an Arp Omni II/Quadra and I think the lever caps were different. The action felt lighter or faster than those of higher serial numbers. The wiring between the circuit boards and back panel was not nearly as neat as a production Chroma. This unit was definitely hand-built, hand-reworked and upgraded along the way before we even saw it. The Anvil case also seemed to be a protoype and had a side compartment for the pedals - there was no compartment in the lid.

When we were all finished doing the ECOs and firmware updates to it, it sounded and played as good as any later production unit. I got to spend a lot of time playing with this Chroma, but I can't say that it played betteror worse than later ones. That's one of the good things about the Chromas in my opinion: their keyboards were very consistent (at least back when they were still new-ish) and tweaking them was not needed, unlike the Rhodes pianos...

Christopher Now

One thing to note about my earlier post that I want to clarify - I stated that the action felt lighter or faster than later production units, then later commented on how, after spending time playing it, it played about the same as others.

I neglected to mention that one of the things we did was to shift the key weights from being closer to the front to where they are in other Chromas. This was only about one quarter to one half of an inch, but it was noticable, especially when we had other units in that I could compare it to.

Chris Ryan [21030691]

On Thursday, May 23, 2002, at 11:19 PM, Claes von Heijne wrote:

Question: is there someone who owns or has seen a Chroma Polaris with the ARP colourscheme, white/orange? Mine is blue/white, most of them seems to be, but the ad version i "Keyboard" is arpish.

The Polaris was, unlike the Chroma, not strictly speaking an ARP design. It was designed after Philip Dodds' departure from CBS. Tony Williams said that the orange and yellow units with wood sides were prototypes that never went to production (perhaps the former ARP employees still at CBS retained the colours for sentimental reasons in the early designs). [See Philip Dodds/Tony Williams Interview.]

Thanks for developing this site, it is of very high quality.

Thanks! It's been a lot of fun, and I certainly can't take sole credit: mailing list members and other contributors have really made it what it is.

David Gowin [21030611]

With regard to the Polaris, the Halloween Polaris was a prototype and never released into production as far as I'm aware.

Chris Ryan [21030691]

One more note (for now) on this. I sent Erik's scan of the ARP Chroma from "Vintage Synthesizers" to Philip Dodds and he replied:

Oh Lord, that stirs up some memories. I remember putting that unit together. I even remember putting on the ARP Chroma label. At that time we had a woodworking shop (in Lexington) where the tolex top was made. It was photographed in the demo room right behind the lobby, I'm pretty sure. It was the only one before the 'ship' went down. The Chroma brochure was to get interest as soon as possible (and orders) so as to calm the bank and creditors.

Still working on getting a copy of the brochure.

Later added to the site: see ARP Chroma Announcement. See also Chroma stuff on eBay (October 2002) for a recent photo of an ARP-branded Chroma.

Another Chroma For Sale on eBay

Chris Ryan [21030691]

Currently $499, reserve not met. It says "Buy it now for US $2995;" does that imply that this is the reserve price? Ridiculously high.

[Item 873730599]

David Gowin [21030611]

While it would be nice to get that much for such an incredible piece of histiry and design, isn't the running price around 1200 these days?

Chroma Advertisements

Chris Ryan [21030691]

I've posted better scans and the full text of the Chroma ads from Keyboard magazine, 1982-83.

Hello to the group...

Bill Finch

(Previously sent to Chris Ryan)

To the group,

I stumbled on this site, and WOW!

I worked in the Production Engineering department in the Hoopeston, IL Fender site (1976-1984) and I was involved when we brought the Chroma on board. Our job was to take the designs from the design teams and get them into volume production. We did this this with automated testing equipmt, programs, fixtures, etc. The Chroma was a real challenge.

The Hoopeston factory was building Gulbransen organs, Fender solid state amps, fininshing Fender tube amps (chassis built in Mexico - whoa, the spiders in those crates!), and an electronic piano for Rhodes (not THE Rhodes piano, however.) Most of these used low-impedance technology, and the contamination that Phil Dodds mentioned had no effect. But the high-impedance circuits of the Chroma got hosed.

We started in fall (1983, I think), got going in the winter and spring, and when summer rolled around, the wheels came off. We could not get any Chromas to work! The self-tuning mechanisms were cross-talking, so the Chroma would "randomly" drift every time it re-tuned itself (constantly)

I remember $300,000 worth of Chroma boards being loaded onto a garbage truck after the problem was isolated. The switch to water-based flux solved it. (The old solvent based system left glycol residues on the boards)

The power supply was also a major pain. It's proper performance relied on transistors with a certain beta range. From lot to lot, they would work or not work. There was also a crowbar circuit to prevent overvoltage, and this thing would react to line transients.

Anyway, great memories. I left CBS in March 1984 for greener pastures, but it was a fantastic training ground. I traveled to Fullerton once with Phil Dodd to rebuild some export Chromas that had been trashed in transit from Illinois to California, he is a cool guy.

Thanks for the site, I wish I had something more to contribute. Also, did Michael Jackson use a Chroma on the Thriller album? We always thought so.

Bill Finch
Thermo Spectronic
Rochester, NY

Bill Finch

One correction - we started to build Chromas in 1982, not 83.

Sorry for the memory lapse (it's been 20 years!)

David Clarke [21030085++]

Thanks

Bill - welcome to the list! Thank you for joining (and sharing your experiences).

While I'm at it - I'll add an additional thanks to Chris Ryan for his continued efforts to chase down information on behalf of us all (eg. the recent/ongoing search into the black and white picture of the Tolex'ed Chroma.)

Also, thanks to all the other list members who have shared their experiences and who continue to participate in list discussions.

Bill Finch

David,

Glad to join. It's kind of weird in a way to revisit this part of my past. The 'net is good for that kind of stuff, however. If anyone is interested, I have information about the plant in Hoopeston before it was bought by CBS.

David Gowin [21030611]

I would think just about everyone is interested in anything to do with the Chroma and it's history!

Bill Finch

History of the Hoopeston, IL factory

(I asked my father to give a me quick summary of the history of Gulbransen, and the facility in Hoopeston, IL that the Chroma was built in. Here is his reply. (maybe a bit off-topic, but it may interest some..))

(My dad is Bob Finch, and he worked for Kinsman Organ in Laconia, NH, and Peterson EMP, and then CBS/Gulbransen in the Chicago area (now retired). He has eight patents related to electronic organ circuitry. Dick Peterson may be familiar to some as the founder of Peterson Electro-Musical Instruments, designer and manufacturer of the Peterson tuner line. (Still being made!)

(I started working summers at Peterson, and went to CBS/Hoopeston after college. I remember as a kid when Don Leslie and Harold Rhodes would come over to the house when they were in town.)

Bill -

I can give you what I know -

As you know, Dick Peterson ( Peterson Electro-Musical Products ) was the "creator" of the Gulbransen organ. - Gulbransen was an old line piano manufacturer - with no expertise in electronics. Dick "found" Ron Scranton, who was a Pipe organ enthusiast, and had purchased one of the early Peterson tuners. Ron operated a small electronics manufacturing facility, doing contract work (for Sears, among others - Bill).

He began doing some assembly work for Dick Peterson, and jointly they added capability to manufacture and sell things like pipe organ stop magnet assemblies, stop tabs, and the like. Dick Peterson contracted with Scranton Industries ( on Gulbransen's behalf ), to manufacture the Gulbransen tone generator assemblies.

As the electronic circuitry of both the Peterson Tuners and of the Gulbransen Organ tone generators required very stable custom value capacitors, Scranton Industries developed the capability to manufacture polycarbonate capacitors, for use in both applications. For this, he rented space in an old bank building in Hoopeston. It's very possible that his capacitors were among the first polycarbonate stable types to be used outside of military applications.

The Seeburg Corp of Chicago purchased Gulbransen in 1965 or 1966, and ran it into the ground in the process, as they had the Kinsman Organ Company (purchased in 1963 ), and most everything else they touched. The Gulbransen company was then purchased by Henry Carter and Associates, which was strictly a sales organization. At Dick Peterson's recommendation, Carter contracted to have Scranton Industries build the entire organ. Ron expanded to a second building, in order to handle the volume. The Carter organization, knowing fixed costs, was able to turn Gulbransen around and make it profitable again.

Dick Peterson had been friends for many years with Don Leslie, inventor of the Leslie organ Speaker, and founder of the Electro-Music company. When CBS started the CBS Musical Instruments Division in the mid to late 60's, and had acquired all kinds of musical instrument companies, the one product lacking in the mix was a home organ line. CBS Musical Instruments came up with a plan (called the "Belair Project", because the inaugurating meeting took place in the Belair Hotel in California) to develop a new organ line, which perhaps would bear either "Belair" or the "Leslie" name, and would incorporate many of Don Leslie's and Dick Peterson's as yet unused patents. Electro - Music was already one of the CBS musical instruments companies.

Although the project was essentially complete and met the requirements set out by CBS Musical Instruments, the decision was made instead, to buy the now profitable Gulbransen Organ Company. CBS did not want to contract for outside assembly, so part of the deal was the purchase and expansion of Scranton Industries - complete with trained work force, etc. Also as part of the "new" Gulbransen, the employees at Peterson who had worked primarily on either Gulbransen or the Belair Project (including me) became Gulbransen/CBS employees.

Many of the features developed for the "Belair" project were incorporated in later models of the Gulbransen Organ line.

(Also - Ron Scranton retired a multi-millionaire, and had a house and barn next to the Hoopeston facility filled with his collections - vintage radios, exotic cars, etc. Occasionally, he would come next door to his old plant to see what we were up to.)

Fwd: chroma for sale

Chris Ryan [21030691]

Begin forwarded message:

From: "AJ COHEN"
Date: Sat May 25, 2002 12:57:27 AM
Subject: chroma for sale

Rhodes Chroma-like new. Hardly used-It was only used for recording in the mid 1980's for a very brief time. Never traveled. The wood case and outside look new. Recently serviced to make sure all was working properly. The only work necessary was to replace internal batteries. This is a pre midi unit, with all cables, pedals, cassette & cassette hook-up, both manuals, and original anvil case. This is truly a mint unit. Must sell soon. asking $1350. Please contact AJ at localjoe@bendcable.com for any further info.

Extra Power Supply Cables?

David Clarke [21030085++]

I need a set of Power Supply Cables for a Chroma (the 3 cables running from the I/O and EQ boards to the PSU, with Molex connectors on both ends).

Before I make a set of up from scratch, I thought I would check to see if anyone actually has an extra set kicking around (maybe from a parted out Chroma).

Anybody have an extra set?

Jerry Leonard [21030100++]

I may Dave, I'll have to look tomorrow. I'll let you know Tuesday.